This is a conversation that I had on facebook with a husband of a girl I used to work with.
She had put as her Status to say no to prop 8. I felt compelled to comment and this is how the conversation went.
Tacia Reimschiissel Coleman is NO ON PROP 8, STOP THE HATE!
Melanie Crane at 10:21am October 17
Its not about hate. I don't hate people that are gay. I have a friend who is gay. I just think that its swinging too far the other way...It will effect how the family unit it taught.
Natty Coleman at 10:23am October 17
the family unit? who are you to define that? how is equal treatment swinging too far the 'other way'?
Nicole Marie De Petro at 10:26am October 17
would you like it if you couldn't marry the one that you love?!
Melanie Crane at 10:31am October 17
Isn't it awesome that we live in a free country and can express our personal beliefs and opinions. I didn't define the family unit. God did. Because I believe in Him and what He teaches I will stand by what He says.
Natty Coleman at 10:57am October 17
Well that's convenient. Yes we do have the right to free expression of ideas, unfortunately that includes fundamentally flawed ideas, and ones that are dangerous to the very ideals of equality in society. Bringing a personal belief in god into this decidedly secular issue that a few organized religions happened to decide they need to impose their beliefs on pretty much disqualifies you from rational intelligent discourse.
Melanie Crane at 11:21am October 17
I'm sorry that you feel that because I believe in a Supreme being, I am therefore disqualified as capable of having a rational intelligent discourse. If this were merely secular, I really wouldn't have a problem with it. But what I see happening is the indoctrination for my children to be taught that marriage between man and man or woman and woman is the new blue. And that I as a parent have no part in deciding what morals I want my child to value. If its legalized then any teacher in school has the right to tell my young and impressionable children that gay marriage is the right thing. Though I'm coming from a religious point of view, and you may not (I don't know) you express your beliefs just as passionately as I do mine. There has to be a balance that each can maintain their beliefs w/o infringing on the rights of others. I'm not sure where that balance is, I just feel really strongly that if this does not pass, our society as a whole will crumble.
Natty Coleman at 11:42am October 17
If that's not hate, I don't know what is.
Melanie Crane at 12:05pm October 17
How is that hate? I am actively teaching my son to love everyone, despite religion, race, physical or mental ability or sexual preference. But to love someone does not mean that you have to condone their actions or lifestyles. You can love a person for who they are as a child of God, but not have to agree with their point of views/beliefs etc. I have a good friend that sexually assaulted someone, do I stop loving them, because I despise what they did? I don't hate anyone. I am only standing up for what I believe.
Natty Coleman at 12:50pm October 17
You are actively propagating a doctrine of exclusion, of inequality. You are right; you CAN disagree with someone, but still love them. You are being contradictory however in imposing your beliefs and actively excluding someone's rights, but at the same time saying you love them/not hate them. Your doctrine of exclusion is more dangerous to this society's welfare than the ability of gays to marry, given that you have established no basis for the pretty serious accusation that gays are detrimental to society's survival, and instead you invoke the word of god. Its pretty apparent you really don't have anything to offer this discussion besides religious rhetoric and irrelevant personal anecdotes. Because of that I am out! See ya!
This is a very real fight for the freedom of religion and what our children will be taught. And this is how the opposition feels...that its not a moral or religious issue, its a secular issue. Everything I said was twisted. As hard as it is, we have GOT to be MORE VOCAL about our beliefs and not be afraid to be "disqualified from intelligent conversations" for expressing the TRUTH. Truth is truth whether we choose to believe it or not. I'm so grateful that because of the experiences I've had in my life my testimony burns deep that we will not be left comfortless in this world of ever growing wickedness. I know that those that put their trust in God and live His doctrines the best they know how, that they will be protected. I also know, that we will be called on to fight...just like the Stripling warriors. It may not be on a bloody battle front but it will be a battle ground to protect our families. We will probably not get out of this life w/o battlewounds but they will heal, ALL of them, if we truly understand and accept the Atonement. I love all of you and pray for your families as well as mine.
March: Zac comes to visit
4 days ago
7 comments:
I had a very similar experience just last week or so with a friend of mine and it was so sad the way that so many people have been duped. They think that WE (as religious followers) are being duped and blinded by our religious beliefs, but they are being lied to and can't see it. I was told by my friend that leagizing gay marriage would not effect me, but she has bought into a ever growing lie.
Parents in MA are having their parental right taken away because gay marriage has been made legal there. In other parts of the country, people are having their religious freedoms taken away in the name of "eqaulity" and acceptance of this minority. The freedom of religion was something that this country was founded upon, that so many died for, and now a minority group in the counrty are taking it away, very subtly and deceptivly. It is scary and I agree whole heartedly; we need to raise our voices and make them aware of the fact that they are still the minority. It is very scary what is happening in our country today and though I try not to, I can't help thinking about Sodom and Gomorah. Thank you for standing up for what you believe.
thanks for post !
Bravo for you! I am so proud of you and the stand you are taking. Isn't it amazing the power of the adversary in his cunning manner of deceit? I am grateful that we don't have to fight alone - that we all have each other to lean on and a much higher power backing us all the way - in fact, if I remember the scripture correctly, he will go before us - and be on our right side and our left! Carry on! Love you
I think it is such an interesting argument that it is exclusion, bigoted, etc.... I'd be curious to know how the opposing view feels about polygamy? Not because I in any way condone it, but because it seems that same argument should apply there. what if a man loved more than one woman and couldn't marry all of the women he loved? Do they embrace polygamy as well? Should we as a society say "whatever goes, because it's really love?" What if a 40 year old man loved a 16 year old? What if a man loved his sister/cousin? Really, where does it stop? That is where I see all this going, which is completely scary to me.
Good for you for standing up for what you believe in and what is fundamentally true. I think it is an issue of parental rights. If Prop 8 passes, parents' rights will be infringed upon, as we will have no say in what our children are being taught in schools. This is only one issue. Good for you! Keep it up. And by the way, cute blog! :)
Hello! This is a great post, the person in question is my husband and just to follow up here since the last comment was a question about our further beliefs let me clarify. No, we do not believe in polygamy, underage marriage, or incest. The point here is that we live in a country that believes in freedom and equality for all. Women had to fight for their right to vote because the founding fathers didn't believe that women had any rights. African Americans had to fight for their right to go to school with whites, drink out of the same drinking fountains, and ride anywhere on the bus. Although I am not religious I do believe in a higher being and he does not discriminate. If any of you have have questions for us, feel free to write on my blog everyone has the right to understand both sides.
I agree in part with Tacia here. God doesn't discriminate against people, however he surely does discriminate against practices or things that people do or believe in. If you (meaning the general "you") believe in the bible, you will notice that God changed the language of the people when they were trying to "reach Heaven" with the tower of Babel. He destroyed nations based on their wickedness ie Noah, Soddom & Gomorrah. One of the great things is that God loves all of his children regardless of what they do, but he looks upon sin with abhorrence. "No unclean thing shall enter into His presence." I love my son Josh no matter what he does, I even loved him after he flooded our upstairs and our basement, but I was not happy about what had happened either way.
I guess the main difference is possibly that I view this as a moral issue, where others may view this as an ethics issue ie. are we being equal? Allow others to do what they want without imposing consequences on others, ie. having others taught something in school that is against the views of others is when it starts to become too much. Parents should have a right to teach their children things without being imposed by the state, etc. In this instance, unfortunately when you impose views on one side you are imposing on the other side too. We should love people regardless of what they may do. In fact what someone does, is not necessarily who they are!
Wow. You know, usually I don't have experiences like this--but when I read your conversation, all I could see was RED with all her comments. With your comments, it was a calm BLUE. Is that weird? It was like anger contrasted to calm.
Thank you for sharing. I think you expressed it perfectly.
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